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07-22-08 - Hyper-V Management Chat

Microsoft's Hyper-V is released. Come join us for a discussion around management topics with Hyper-V. In this first chat we will discuss general managment with Hyper-V. In the upcoming weeks we will focus on using Microsoft's System Center Virtual Machine Manager and OpenManage on Hyper-V.

Technical Community - Background Reading

TechCenter Hyper-V Systems Management landing page
Microsoft Hyper-V Website
Microsoft SVCMM Website

Chat Transcript

DELL-ScottH hey Krenms !
Krenms Hey there
DELL-ScottH are you with dell, or customer, or partner, or alien life form ?
Krenms I am a customer

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DELL-ToddM joined.
DELL-ScottH waiting on Todd to join then we'll kick it off ... give a few more minutes for connections
DELL-ScottH there he is ... hey todd
DELL-ToddM Hello All!
DELL-ScottH ohh we started tweeting
DELL-ScottH you guys into that ?
DELL-ScottH www.twitter.com/delltechcenter

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DELL-ToddM I think that he clicked, instead of right click
rayg sorry, rookie here>
Krenms woops

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DELL-ScottH ohh yeah
DELL-ScottH hello simplygq
DELL-ScottH nice nick
DELL-ToddM Forgot to warn you to right click on links to avoid leaving chat
DELL-ToddM Hey gq
simplygq hey
DELL-ScottH I'd like to welcome everybody to this week's chat session
DELL-ScottH we'll be discussion Hyper-v management for the next few weeks
DELL-ScottH I'll be honest, we just started diving into Scvmm 2008, so if anybody else want to chime in with experiences ... feel free
Krenms I've tried it a bit

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DELL-ScottH We've got Greg Ramsey with us ... he's a Ms Mvp on System Center products .. so I'm sure he'll mouth off about things
DELL-ScottH :-)
DELL-ToddM Welcome Krauseed - We are just getting started
ramseyg_dell :)
DELL-ScottH how long have you tried it ?
DELL-ToddM Action, Recent room history will catch you up on the chat so far
DELL-ScottH I started a page to gather our findings from using it in the lab .....
DELL-ScottH Reminder ... right click, or you'll get caught in our trap :-)
Krenms I tried it a couple weeks in beta form....pissed me off so I stopped trying. I'm thinking about trying it out again now that is Rc
DELL-ScottH http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/hyper-v+management
DELL-ScottH what was it doing that got under your skin ?

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DELL-ToddM Quick Tip - If you right click on links it won't cause you to exit the hat
DELL-ScottH I've got some screen shots from our use in the lab -- http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/scvmm+-+system+center+virtual+machine+manager
DELL-ToddM chat
rayg I was reading the docs about it today... sounds really cool and powerfull. What sucks with it?
DELL-ScottH Todd installed it ... any issues you had with install todd ?
DELL-ScottH I think the main thing was that the server portion only installs on W2k08 x64
DELL-ToddM Install is actually not too bad - Only one thing that I thought was kinda strange
DELL-ToddM You have to install the server portion, then the admin console as two seperate processes
DELL-ToddM Usually Microsoft will have a single installer that will give you options for all the pieces
DELL-ToddM Like with Exchange or Sql Server
rayg Is it still true that it only installs on 08x64?
Krenms Yes..only x64
rayg hmm
DELL-ScottH but the console can install on w2k03
DELL-ToddM The server portion also must be installed on W2k8
DELL-ScottH it has a client piece
DELL-ScottH didn't you install that client piece on W2k3 todd ?
DELL-ToddM Yes - I have the admin console "client piece" on a W2k3 server
DELL-ToddM This is the same way that Vmware has done their Virtual Center management software
DELL-ToddM There is a server and client piece
DELL-ScottH One of the first things we did was to integrate our Vmware Virtual Center server into the console ...
DELL-ToddM That can be installed on the same system or on seperate systems
Krenms I get that.........do you need two servers for Hyper-v to work well?
DELL-ScottH I was quite suprised at the level of managability
DELL-ToddM I don't think that you need two servers for Hyper-v to work well - but I would recommend that you put the Scvmm on a seperate server from Hyper-v
DELL-ToddM Maybe I'm splitting hairs - but I see Hyper-v and Scvmm seperately
DELL-ScottH that was the one little thing that got under my skin ... I've built a nice server under W2k03 with all my managment software , Scom Sccm, Ita, Altiris .... and I couldn't install Scvmm 08 on that
DELL-ToddM Now that I think about it, this probably isn't fair becuase I assume that Virtual Center is used with Esx Server.....
rayg do you guys have any links to scvmm and its reqs?
DELL-ScottH Scvmm 08 Faq -- http://download.microsoft.com/download/7/1/2/712b16f6-8c74-47df-9fa9-9c417d4620fc/scvmm08+faqv2_final.pdf
DELL-ToddM Scvmm 08 is still only a Release Candidate
rayg linky no good :(
DELL-ScottH http://download.microsoft.com/download/7/1/2/712b16f6-8c74-47df-9fa9-9c417d4620fc/scvmm08%20faqv2_final.pdf
DELL-ScottH that one work >
DELL-ScottH ?
rayg yep!
DELL-ScottH and here's the general overview whitepaper -- http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/f/8/6f8a7125-041a-46f9-a9ec-362b13fe0445/vmm2008_white_paper_draft3.6_final.pdf

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rayg ok so can you use scvmm 2005 to manage win2k8 Vm hosts and clients?
DELL-ToddM You can get to the download of Scvmm 08 in it's current form here - http://www.microsoft.com/systemcenter/virtualmachinemanager/en/us/future-version.aspx
DELL-ScottH I have to say the Virtual Center integration is slick .... I did Vmotion out of the box, and worked fine ... I'm going to do a demo on it and should have out by end of this week ..... I'm recording voice on it right now
DELL-ScottH no not svcmm 05
DELL-ScottH Scvmm 05 won't manage hyper-v
rayg hmmm ok
rayg so does hyper v come with management tools built in that are ok? Or is scvmm08 a must?
DELL-ScottH but scvmm 08 will manage virtual server
DELL-ScottH Todd can speak to that
DELL-ScottH what did you find out of the box with hyper-v
DELL-ScottH ?
DELL-ToddM Scvmm 07 will only manage Microsoft Virtual Server - Not Hyper-v
DELL-ToddM Additionally - You need to get the patch for Scvmm 08 for it to be able to manage the released final version of Hyper-v
DELL-ToddM Scvmm 08 beta without the patch will only manage Hyper-v Rc-1
rayg how beefy of a box is needed for scvmm08 - say to manage 10 - 20 host machines maybe 40 vm's?
DELL-ToddM The Scvmm 08 beta patch - is on the download site for it
ramseyg_dell fyi - some background on scvmm08 and hyper-v - http://blogs.technet.com/rakeshm/archive/2007/12/18/scvmm-and-the-hyper-v-beta.aspx
DELL-ScottH machine with 2.8 2GB of ram can manage 100's of hosts and thousands of Vm's
DELL-ScottH that's what the Faq says ... so probably double it :-)
rayg schweet... I guess I just need x64!
DELL-ScottH we've got it on a Pe 2970 with few Gbs of Ram
DELL-ToddM You will need to use a Sql Server Db backend to support Scvmm if you are going to use it for more than test or a few hosts
rayg I thought that I read that it would install Sql Express ?
rayg 20 vms?
DELL-ToddM During install it gives you the option to install Sql Server Express - Sql Msde - or point to a Sql instalnce
DELL-ToddM 20 vms would probably be fine on Sql Express
DELL-ToddM How many Vms do you think you will have in six months?
DELL-ToddM a year?
rayg probably 6, then 12
Krenms I plan on using it for our test enviorment
rayg Production here!
DELL-ToddM For test - Sql Express if fine
DELL-ToddM For a small production env - you are probably also fine
DELL-ScottH Krenms, what is the test environment ?
Krenms Xp most likely with steady state
DELL-ToddM I haven't read the docs closely for Scvmm and the Db - but with Vmware and Virtual Center I believe that they only support full blown Sql or Oracle
DELL-ToddM Leaving Sql Express as a test and dev type thing
DELL-ToddM Microsoft could be completely different in their requirements
Krenms I am also trying out Vmware Server 2.0 Atm
rayg roger.
DELL-ScottH interseting .... is this your first stab at virtualization ? .. would be interesting to hear your thoughts on Vmware vs Ms
rayg it will be mine.
Krenms I've used vm's before........first time setting up a test enviroment though
DELL-ScottH the self-service portal in Scvmm08 is pretty cool
Krenms We've got a huge box to host our test enviroment
DELL-ScottH you play with that ?
Krenms haven't tried it yet
DELL-ScottH define huge ...
Krenms 8 proc 32gig ram
Krenms huge in my book :)
DELL-ScottH you can create a group and then assign owners that can access the resources through a web "self service" portal .. and create and manage the Vms themselfs
DELL-ScottH I thinks that's huge in anyones book !
Krenms vmserver is a little sluggish compared to what I thought it would be
DELL-ScottH kind of like the Vmware lab manager product, if you're familiar with that
DELL-ScottH sluggish ? ... what measurements ?
Krenms just the feel of our group using it and imaging machines on it
Krenms no real mesurments
DELL-ScottH so the hyper-v "feels" faster ?
DELL-ScottH same hardware ?
Krenms haven't tried Hyper-v since we got our new Nas
DELL-ToddM I haven't measured Vmware Server 2.0 either, but to me Vmware Server 1.5 seems better than 2.0
DELL-ToddM I think becusae Vmware Server 2.0 is still beta - there are some things that aren't quite polished
Krenms Yea, we have another box similar to the "big box" that is running Vmware Server 1.6 and that performs much better than 2.0
Krenms Vmware Server 2.0 is Rc now I believe
DELL-ScottH it's strange that every beta I've worked with .. be it hardware or software .. seems to leave performance tweaking until the end
Krenms I can understand that
DELL-ScottH I guess it makes sense to get all the bugs out first
DELL-ScottH "Man my car has 600 Hp" ..... "yeah, but it's got no wheels !"
DELL-ScottH ::laugh

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DELL-ScottH hello laine
DELL-ToddM Laine - Good to see you
Laine_Tsujii Hi Scott
DELL-ScottH use "action" .."recent room history" to catch up
DELL-ScottH Krenms, what was it that irked you in your first use of Scvmm 08 beta ?
Krenms I only have one piece of hardware.......and I tried install Scvmm on the same box as hyper-v........
Krenms plus I dind't have the Nas hooked up yet, I was just messing around with it and couldn't get any vm's too boot......it was probably my error, but we have used Vmware server before, so we switched to that and tried that out.
Krenms been using that for the past month now.........and now I'm a little dissapointed with vmware permisions and performance
DELL-ToddM If you are just going to have a single server - you might not need Scvmm. Maybe you could get by with just the Hyper-v Manager
DELL-ScottH so just curious .. why not Esx ?
DELL-ScottH yeah, scvmm probbably overkill
Krenms We have Esx in our production.........not for out test $$$$$
Krenms not for our test
DELL-ScottH thought I would see those $$$$$ :-)

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Krenms Yep :)
DELL-ScottH hello sean !
DELL-ScottH use "action" ,.... "recent room history" to catch up
Krenms so I dont install scvmm, then how to I get clients to run their vms?
Sean hi folks. so whats the general feeling on hyper-v so far?

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DELL-ToddM I thought that you could install the Hyper-v manager on non-hyper-v server as management stations - but not sure
DELL-ScottH hello dilip ... use "action" ... "recent room history" to catch up
DELL-ToddM It won't give you the permissions that you you will need
rayg Doesn't win2k8 with Hyper v have a built in management tool?
DELL-ToddM The self service portal with Scvmm sounds perfect for what you need
DELL-ToddM Yes the win2k8 with hyper-v server has a management tool called Hyper-v Manager
DELL-ScottH there is an Rdp like client to connect to the Hyper-v vm's ,, is that what you mean by "get clients to run their Vms? "
Krenms yes, that is what I mean
rayg i think he said he couldn't get them to boot?
DELL-ScottH it's called "virtual Machine Connection"
Krenms That was the first problem......but I'm pretty sure I just got pissed too soon and didn't read all the directions :)
Krenms Question.....would it be possible for me to run Hyper-v and Vmware Server 2.0 at the same time on the same server to test them both out? I'm probably dreaming.
DELL-ScottH who wants to Rtfm ? ... not me !
DELL-ScottH hmmmm...
DELL-ScottH why don't you try and tell us what happens ?
DELL-ScottH Todd, let's do a thought exercise ... what do you think would happen ?
DELL-ScottH I think driver issues ... maybe ... have to test it
DELL-ScottH todd ?
DELL-ToddM What are we testing? Clearly I have failed the thought exercise
DELL-ScottH lol
DELL-ToddM Need more caffinee
DELL-ScottH yeah I need some Dew quick
DELL-ScottH too much tweeting
DELL-ToddM Hyper-v and Vmware Server 2.0 on same server!
DELL-ToddM Ok
DELL-ToddM I haven't triied that , but I did try to run Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 and Hyper-v on the same server
DELL-ToddM It caused the Rdp connection to the server to drop due to an encrption error about every 30 seconds
DELL-ToddM Very strange
DELL-ToddM Along the same lines - we have a wiki page that tells you how you can run Esx under Vmware workstation
Krenms Would putting Hyper-v on one Nic and Vmware Server 2.0 on a differant Nic help at all?
DELL-ToddM http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/vmware+virtual+infrastructure+test+environment
DELL-ToddM Contributed by one of our Dell servidces guys in Europe
DELL-ScottH so it might work .. unless some hard coding of "if exist Vmware then format c:\"
DELL-ToddM He uses it as a demo env that he can take with him on his laptop
DELL-ToddM I would give it a fair chance of working
DELL-ToddM Although I'm not sure I would recommend it for more than a test :-)
Krenms True
DELL-ScottH if you do it, please let us know your findings .... you can simply start a thread on any of the pages on the site and we'll find it
DELL-ScottH we usually learn as much from you guys as you do from us ... we appreciate that
Krenms Will do........if I get permesion my my managers first.
DELL-ScottH hear you on that one
DELL-ScottH any other questions ? we are rounding the hour ... some final links ...
Laine_Tsujii thanks for letting me sit in--gotta run to another meeting now.

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DELL-ScottH here's the landing page to follow -- http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/hyper-v+management
DELL-ScottH and screenshots -- http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/scvmm+-+system+center+virtual+machine+manager
DELL-ScottH next weeks chat will be on Scvmm again , then the following we'll discuss Openmanage on Hyper-v

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DELL-ScottH look for a demo on Scvmm with Vmware Vmotion ..... and one on the self service portal coming soon
DELL-ScottH thanks again everyone !
Krenms Thank you
DELL-ScottH good luck on the testing
DELL-ScottH let us know if you need help
Krenms Hopefully this week I'll start
DELL-ScottH ray thanks for joining .... good luck on yours as well
rayg my server is on order from you guys so I'll be in too!

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DELL-ScottH ahhh fresh cardboard smell .. like christmas ... Todd loves it when we get new boxes in the lab
DELL-ScottH thanks to everyone ..... see you next week !
Krenms Later

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Stuart Hi Guys, I am here so it must be time for you guys to go ! :)
DELL-ScottH hey stuart !
DELL-ScottH yeah getting close
Stuart I am working on converting that drac script to vbs.... slow going but at least i am learning stuff :)

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DELL-ScottH ahhhh , that was on my list to find something that might be able to run .sh scripts in windows ... maybe cygwin ?
DELL-ScottH greg , you there ?
DELL-ScottH Greg is Ms Mvp ... and probably good with Vbs
Stuart I had a chat with some people of some programming forums, they all said that there is no tool which could covert it and so it needs to be re-written. I should have this down today or tomorrow with any luck : )
Stuart done....
DELL-ScottH Wow .. done as we speak ?
Stuart hehehehe no... I was fixing a typo.... down = done.... :)
DELL-ScottH so how much are we going to have to paypal you to get the code ?
DELL-ScottH ohh no, you woke todd up
DELL-ToddM I'm done - down and out, over and out - whatever
Stuart Do you happen to have a spare shirt??? the guy who posted the .sh should get one if there is a spare one :)
DELL-ToddM Need to go home and not look at a screen for a few hours
Stuart Nah, I will post the code as soon as it is tested ect..
DELL-ScottH ahh yes, some shirt loving
DELL-ScottH make sure to give him some compliment medals

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DELL-ScottH I'll work on the shirt
Stuart okies.... I guess you are off too... seeya next time :)
Stuart I think i use too many smileys....
DELL-ScottH hey we're twittering now ... follow us !
DELL-ScottH www.twitter.com/delltechcenter
Stuart I have no idea what that is.... but I am on my way... hehehe
DELL-ScottH yeah, I was total noob on it few weeks ago
DELL-ScottH this youtube is good intro to it -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddo9idmax0o
Stuart okies thanks... I will try to have a look this morning.... I gotta go due to work.... seeya later !!
Stuart seeya!




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