On the heels of the release of the Microsoft® Hyper-V™ technology, this discussion around management topics with Hyper-V begins with general management and subsequent chats focus on using Microsoft System Center Virtual Machine Manager (SCVMM) and the Dell™ OpenManage™ systems management tools on Hyper-V.

Technical Community - Background Reading

• Dell TechCenter Hyper-V Systems Management
• Microsoft Hyper-V Web Site
• Microsoft SVCMM Web Site

Chat Transcript

DELL-ScottH	Are you with Dell, or a customer, or a partner, or an alien life form?
Krenms	I am a customer
DELL-ScottH	Waiting on Todd to join and then we'll kick it off. Give it a few more minutes for connections
DELL-ScottH	There he is. Hey Todd
DELL-ToddM	Hello All!
DELL-ScottH	Oh we started tweeting. You guys into that? www.twitter.com/delltechcenter
DELL-ToddM	I think that he clicked, instead of right clicking
rayg	Sorry, rookie here
Krenms	Oops
DELL-ScottH	Oh yeah
DELL-ScottH	Hello Simplygq
DELL-ScottH	Nice nick
DELL-ToddM	Forgot to warn you to right-click links to avoid leaving the chat
DELL-ToddM	Hey gq
simplygq	Hey
DELL-ScottH	I'd like to welcome everybody to this week's chat session. We'll be discussing Hyper-V management for the next few weeks. I'll be honest, we just started diving into SCVMM 2008, so if anybody else want to chime in with experiences, feel free
Krenms	I've tried it a bit
DELL-ScottH	We've got Greg Ramsey with us. He's a Microsoft MVP on System Center products. I'm sure he'll mouth off about things :-)
DELL-ToddM	Welcome Krauseed. We are just getting started
ramseyg_dell	:)
DELL-ScottH	How long have you tried it?
DELL-ToddM	Action, Recent Room History will catch you up on the chat so far
DELL-ScottH	I started a page to gather our findings from using it in the lab
DELL-ScottH	Reminder, right-click, or you'll get caught in our trap :-)
Krenms	I tried it a couple weeks in beta form...pissed me off so I stopped trying. I'm thinking about trying it out again now that it is RC
DELL-ScottH	www.delltechcenter.com/page/hyper-v+management
DELL-ScottH	What was it doing that got under your skin?
DELL-ToddM	Quick tip: if you right-click links it won't cause you to exit the chat
DELL-ScottH	I've got some screen shots from our use in the lab: www.delltechcenter.com/page/scvmm+-+system+center+virtual+machine+manager
rayg	I was reading the docs about it today. Sounds really cool and powerful. What sucks with it?
DELL-ScottH	Todd installed it. Any issues you had with install, Todd?
DELL-ScottH	I think the main thing was that the server portion only installs on Windows 2008 x64
DELL-ToddM	Install is actually not too bad; only one thing that I thought was kinda strange. You have to install the server portion, then the admin console as two separate processes. Usually Microsoft will have a single installer that will give you options for all the pieces, like with Exchange or SQL Server
rayg	Is it still true that it only installs on 08 x64?
Krenms	Yes, only x64
rayg	Hmmm
DELL-ScottH	But the console can install on Windows Server 2003
DELL-ToddM	The server portion also must be installed on Windows Server 2008
DELL-ScottH	It has a client piece; didn't you install that client piece on Windows Server 2003, Todd?
DELL-ToddM	Yes, I have the admin console "client piece" on a Windows Server 2003. This is the same way that VMware has done their Virtual Center management software. There is a server and client piece
DELL-ScottH	One of the first things we did was to integrate our VMware Virtual Center server into the console
DELL-ToddM	That can be installed on the same system or on separate systems
Krenms	I get that. Do you need two servers for Hyper-V to work well?
DELL-ScottH	I was quite surprised at the level of manageability
DELL-ToddM	I don't think that you need two servers for Hyper-V to work well, but I would recommend that you put the SCVMM on a separate server from Hyper-V. Maybe I'm splitting hairs; but I see Hyper-V and SCVMM separately
DELL-ScottH	That was the one little thing that got under my skin. I've built a nice server under Windows Server 2003 with all my management software, SCOM, SCCM, IT Assistant, Altiris...and I couldn't install SCVMM 08 on that
DELL-ToddM	Now that I think about it, this probably isn't fair because I assume that Virtual Center is used with ESX Server
rayg	Do you guys have any links to SCVMM and its requirements?
DELL-ScottH	SCVMM 08 FAQ: http://download.microsoft.com/download/7/1/2/712b16f6-8c74-47df-9fa9-9c417d4620fc/scvmm08+faqv2_final.pdf
DELL-ToddM	SCVMM 08 is still only a release candidate
rayg	Linky no good :(
DELL-ScottH	http://download.microsoft.com/download/7/1/2/712b16f6-8c74-47df-9fa9-9c417d4620fc/scvmm08%20faqv2_final.pdf
DELL-ScottH	That one work?
rayg	Yep! and here's the general overview white paper:
ELL-ScottH	http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/f/8/6f8a7125-041a-46f9-a9ec-362b13fe0445/vmm2008_white_paper_draft3.6_final.pdf
rayg	Okay, so can you use SCVMM 2005 to manage Windows Server 2008, VM hosts, and clients?
DELL-ToddM	You can get to the download of SCVMM 08 in it's current form here: www.microsoft.com/systemcenter/virtualmachinemanager/en/us/future-version.aspx
DELL-ScottH	I have to say the Virtual Center integration is slick. I did vMotion out of the box, and worked fine. I'm going to do a demo on it and should have out by end of this week. I'm recording voice on it right now
DELL-ScottH	No not SVCMM 05; SCVMM 05 won't manage Hyper-V
rayg	Hmmm, okay
rayg	So does Hyper-V come with management tools built in that are okay? Or is SCVMM 08 a must?
DELL-ScottH	But SCVMM 08 will manage virtual server. Todd can speak to that. What did you find out of the box with Hyper-V?
DELL-ToddM	SCVMM 07 will only manage Microsoft Virtual Server; not Hyper-V. Additionally, you need to get the patch for SCVMM 08 for it to be able to manage the released final version of Hyper-V. SCVMM 08 beta without the patch will only manage Hyper-V RC-1
rayg	How beefy of a box is needed for SCVMM 08—say to manage 10–20 host machines maybe 40 VMs?
DELL-ToddM	The SCVMM 08 beta patch is on the download site for it
ramseyg_dell	FYI: some background on SCVMM 08 and Hyper-V: http://blogs.technet.com/rakeshm/archive/2007/12/18/scvmm-and-the-hyper-v-beta.aspx
DELL-ScottH	Machine with 2.8 2 GB of ram can manage 100s of hosts and thousands of VMs. That's what the FAQ says...so probably double it :-)
rayg	Schweet, I guess I just need x64!
DELL-ScottH	We've got it on a PowerEdge 2970 with a few GB of RAM
DELL-ToddM	You will need to use a SQL Server database back end to support SCVMM if you are going to use it for more than test or a few hosts
rayg	I thought that I read that it would install SQL Express? Twenty VMs?
DELL-ToddM	During install it gives you the option to install SQL Server Express—SQL MSDE—or point to a SQL instance. Twenty VMs would probably be fine on SQL Express. How many VMs do you think you will have in six months? A year?
rayg	Probably 6, then 12
Krenms	I plan on using it for our test environment
rayg	Production here!
DELL-ToddM	For test, SQL Express is fine. For a small production environment you are probably also fine
DELL-ScottH	Krenms, what is the test environment?
Krenms	XP most likely with steady state
DELL-ToddM	I haven't read the documents closely for SCVMM and the databases, but with VMware and Virtual Center I believe that they only support full-blown SQL or Oracle. Leaving SQL Express as a test and dev type thing. Microsoft could be completely different in their requirements
Krenms	I am also trying out VMware Server 2.0 ATM
rayg	Roger
DELL-ScottH	Interesting…is this your first stab at virtualization? Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on VMware versus Microsoft
rayg	It will be mine
Krenms	I've used VMs before...first time setting up a test environment though
DELL-ScottH	The self-service portal in SCVMM 08 is pretty cool
Krenms	We've got a huge box to host our test environment
DELL-ScottH	You play with that?
Krenms	Haven't tried it yet
DELL-ScottH	Define huge
Krenms	Eight processors 32 GB RAM
Krenms	Huge in my book :)
DELL-ScottH	You can create a group and then assign owners that can access the resources through a Web "self service" portal and create and manage the VMs themselves. I think that's huge in anyone’s book!
Krenms	VM Server is a little sluggish compared to what I thought it would be
DELL-ScottH	Kind of like the VMware Lab Manager product, if you're familiar with that. Sluggish? What measurements?
Krenms	Just the feel of our group using it and imaging machines on it; no real measurements
DELL-ScottH	So the Hyper-V "feels" faster? Same hardware?
Krenms	Haven't tried Hyper-V since we got our new NAS
DELL-ToddM	I haven't measured VMware Server 2.0 either, but to me VMware Server 1.5 seems better than 2.0. I think because VMware Server 2.0 is still beta—there are some things that aren't quite polished
Krenms	Yeah, we have another box similar to the "big box" that is running VMware Server 1.6, and that performs much better than 2.0. VMware Server 2.0 is RC now I believe
DELL-ScottH	It's strange that every beta I've worked with, be it hardware or software, seems to leave performance tweaking until the end
Krenms	I can understand that
DELL-ScottH	I guess it makes sense to get all the bugs out first: "Man, my car has 600 HP...yeah, but it's got no wheels!" ::laugh
DELL-ScottH	Hello Laine
DELL-ToddM	Laine, good to see you
Laine_Tsujii	Hi Scott
DELL-ScottH	Use Action, Recent Room History to catch up
DELL-ScottH	Krenms, what was it that irked you in your first use of SCVMM 08 beta?
Krenms	I only have one piece of hardware, and I tried to install SCVMM on the same box as Hyper-V. Plus I didn't have the NAS hooked up yet; I was just messing around with it and couldn't get any VMs to boot. It was probably my error, but we have used VMware server before, and we switched to that and tried that out. Been using that for the past month now, and now I'm a little disappointed with VMware permissions and performance
DELL-ToddM	If you are just going to have a single server, you might not need SCVMM. Maybe you could get by with just the Hyper-V Manager
DELL-ScottH	So just curious, why not ESX? Yeah, SCVMM probably is overkill
Krenms	We have ESX in our production, not for our test $$$$$—not for our test
DELL-ScottH	Thought I would see those $$$$$ :-)
Krenms	Yep :)
DELL-ScottH	Hello Sean! Use Action, Recent Room History to catch up
Krenms	So I don’t install SCVMM, and then how to I get clients to run their VMs?
Sean	Hi folks. So what’s the general feeling on Hyper-V so far?
DELL-ToddM	I thought that you could install the Hyper-V Manager on non–Hyper-V server as management stations, but not sure
DELL-ScottH	Hello Dilip; use Action, Recent Room History to catch up
DELL-ToddM	It won't give you the permissions that you will need
rayg	Doesn't Windows Server 2008 with Hyper-V have a built-in management tool?
DELL-ToddM	The self-service portal with SCVMM sounds perfect for what you need. Yes, the Windows Server 2008 with Hyper-V server has a management tool called Hyper-V Manager
DELL-ScottH	There is an RDP-like client to connect to the Hyper-V VMs—is that what you mean by, "get clients to run their VMs"?
Krenms	Yes, that is what I mean
rayg	I think he said he couldn't get them to boot?
DELL-ScottH	It's called "Virtual Machine Connection"
Krenms	That was the first problem, but I'm pretty sure I just got pissed too soon and didn't read all the directions :)
Krenms	Question: would it be possible for me to run Hyper-V and VMware Server 2.0 at the same time on the same server to test them both out? I'm probably dreaming
DELL-ScottH	Who wants to RTFM? Not me! Hmmm... Why don't you try and tell us what happens? Todd, let's do a thought exercise; what do you think would happen? I think driver issues, maybe. Have to test it
DELL-ScottH	Todd?
DELL-ToddM	What are we testing? Clearly I have failed the thought exercise
DELL-ScottH	Lol
DELL-ToddM	Need more caffeine
DELL-ScottH	Yeah I need some Dew quick; too much tweeting
DELL-ToddM	Hyper-V and VMware Server 2.0 on the same server! Okay. I haven't tried that, but I did try to run Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 and Hyper-V on the same server. It caused the RDP connection to the server to drop because of an encryption error about every 30 seconds. Very strange. Along the same lines, we have a wiki page that tells you how you can run ESX under VMware Workstation
Krenms	Would putting Hyper-V on one NIC and VMware Server 2.0 on a different NIC help at all?
DELL-ToddM	www.delltechcenter.com/page/vmware+virtual+infrastructure+test+environment – Contributed by one of our Dell services guys in Europe
DELL-ScottH	So it might work. Unless some hard coding of "if exist VMware then format c:\"
DELL-ToddM	He uses it as a demo environment t hat he can take with him on his laptop. I would give it a fair chance of working. Although, I'm not sure I would recommend it for more than a test :-)
Krenms	True
DELL-ScottH	If you do it, please let us know your findings. You can simply start a thread on any of the pages on the site, and we'll find it. We usually learn as much from you guys as you do from us. We appreciate that
Krenms	Will do. If I get my manager’s permission first
DELL-ScottH	Hear you on that one. Any other questions? We are rounding the hour. Some final links?
Laine_Tsujii	Thanks for letting me sit in; gotta run to another meeting now
DELL-ScottH	Here's the landing page to follow: www.delltechcenter.com/page/hyper-v+management. And screenshots: www.delltechcenter.com/page/scvmm+-+system+center+virtual+machine+manager
DELL-ScottH	Next week’s chat will be on SCVMM again, and then the following week we'll discuss OpenManage on Hyper-V. Look for a demo on SCVMM with VMware vMotion, and one on the self-service portal coming soon
DELL-ScottH	Thanks again, everyone!
Krenms	Thank you
DELL-ScottH	Good luck on the testing; let us know if you need help
Krenms	Hopefully this week I'll start
DELL-ScottH	Ray, thanks for joining. Good luck on yours as well
rayg	My server is on order from you guys, so I'll be in too!
DELL-ScottH	Ah, fresh cardboard smell. Like Christmas. Todd loves it when we get new boxes in the lab
DELL-ScottH	Thanks to everyone. See you next week!
Krenms	Later
Stuart	Hi Guys, I am here so it must be time for you guys to go! :)
DELL-ScottH	Hey Stuart! Yeah getting close
Stuart	I am working on converting that DRAC script to VBS. Slow going but at least I am learning stuff :)
DELL-ScottH	Ah, that was on my list to find something that might be able to run .sh scripts in Windows, maybe cygwin?
DELL-ScottH	Greg, you there?
DELL-ScottH	Greg is a Microsoft MVP and probably good with VBS
Stuart	I had a chat with some people on some programming forums; they all said that there is no tool that could covert it, and so it needs to be re-written. I should have this down today or tomorrow with any luck : ) done...
DELL-ScottH	Wow, done as we speak?
Stuart	He he no. I was fixing a typo; down = done :)
DELL-ScottH	So how much are we going to have to PayPal you to get the code? Oh no, you woke Todd up
DELL-ToddM	I'm done—down and out, over and out—whatever
Stuart	Do you happen to have a spare shirt? The guy who posted the .sh should get one if there is a spare one :)
DELL-ToddM	Need to go home and not look at a screen for a few hours
Stuart	Nah, I will post the code as soon as it is tested etc.
DELL-ScottH	Ah yes, some shirt loving; make sure to give him some compliment medals. I'll work on the shirt
Stuart	Okies...I guess you are off too...seeya next time :) I think I use too many smileys
DELL-ScottH	Hey we're twittering now...follow us! www.twitter.com/delltechcenter
Stuart	I have no idea what that is, but I am on my way. He he
DELL-ScottH	Yeah, I was a total noob on it a few weeks ago. This YouTube is a good intro to it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddo9idmax0o
Stuart	Okies, thanks. I will try to have a look this morning. I gotta go because of work. Seeya later!